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So now the garden nazis want to regulate community gardens and set standards?

And to link the climate change mantra as a reason to regulate community gardens.

You want to control what is planted in each plot?

What happened to diversity?

Oh no not in a community garden. We are going to tell you what to plant when to plant blah blah blah!

People like you and the new regime in Washington are looking to control every aspect of our lives and now our gardens.

This is insane

The TROLL

Wow, power and control. I'm with the troll on this one.

I'm a hardcore liberal, but your ideas on community gardens give me the creeps. I can just imagine the petty power wielding that would go on under your scheme. Gardening, community or otherwise, is not about following marching orders. I can imagine the mantra of your community garden: "bis aufweitern Bescheid".

Well Greg and Country Gardener is that how you would feel about a public botanical garden? How dare a board decide what to plant where in the botanical garden and then assign volunteers tasks to better enhance the overall garden. In a community garden these people do not own the land. They have a choice of whether to participate or not.

There can be more than one satisfactory way to organize a community garden for the benefit and enjoyment of the participants.

The Troll is paranoid. That attitude is expected of him. When they tell you what to grow on your own land at your own home, then it will be time to say hell no.

I'm not with the Troll. I am so tired of everyone thinking only about themselves. For thousands of years, the only way people survived was by working together-to farm, hunt, build, etc. Now, people can buy their way out of whatever problem they have-or they think they can.

It will not be that far into the future, I would predict, that people again have no choice but to do what this blog details: pull together to produce food for their neighborhood.

The Trolls will probably be long gone by then. Or, do you guys live for 150 years? I hope so, so that you can see what your individual mindset brings to bear.

There is a plot of land in my neighborhood that I desperately wish I could afford to buy to start a community garden exactly like the guest ranter is talking about. Right now, it is doing nothing but eroding and growing weeds, while the owner waits for someone to pay $90,000 for the vacant lot, to build a new house in a 50 year old neighborhood. Fat chance of that ever happening.

Stop thinking only of yourselves, folks. Before it is too late.

I think the issue here is what people really want from a community garden. For many vegetable growers food security isn't so much the issue as producing specific crops well. My father for example has its own garden but if he were to use an allotment instead the result would still be the same - a lot of asparagus and a few other bits and bobs. My grandfather by comparison would have unleashed a horde of red cabbage and a squadron of runner bean wigwams on his allotment plot.

If food security for the overall population really is the goal then I think Ed's ideas definitely have merit (as would any number of other ideas like using fruit bearing species as street trees (which is an idea I'm quite keen on but I digress)) but I really don't think it is a lot of people's objective when they seek to get involved in a community garden right now.

Sounds like the end of the summer of love in gardening-land...bring on the Weather Underground!

Folks, try to remember that our shared love of all things earthy masks a hosts of different views that don't always pop-up when emoting over gardening. While I admit there was a lebensraum tone to the piece, I think occasionally we do have to sheepishly accept it when one of our dirty-handed tribe shouts at us to put down our turning forks and charge the barricades. I always try to remember that some people actually care about this at another level...whatever that might be...and in response we don't have to start waiving the Libertarian flag to actively engage in discussion …to wildly abuse Freud, sometime a cucumber is more than a cucumber.

I have to say that as attractive as urban farming sounds from a Utilitarian perspective, and as much as I believe the school yards are often space that is underutilized, I would prefer to keep that situation tightly monitored. As a parent I would like to keep the already amazingly supply of creepy people away from one of their favorite victims (children).

Can you see what this would look like carried to extremes? Or not even that far into them? So what if what I want to grow are tasty European market garden varieties, like Costoluto Genovese tomatoes. The collective says we can only grow Rutgers because of the yeilds. Boy, am I feeling the enthusiasm now. I'll feel oh, so motivated to go out and spend time in the garden at my scheduled hours--I sure it would have to have some kind of schedule requirements. Sorry, kids, we have to cancel your art classes because Mommy has to go work at the collective.

I'll pass on the early stages of this slippery slope away from individualism, thanks. I came here to this country to get away from this kind of thinking.

I must live in a strange community. Or at least, we must have strange community gardens. The gardens I know of are sort of planned. This plot will be squash, this plot tomatoes, etc. The people all come and work in the garden. They get to take home some of the bounty. Maybe its because they don't give out allotments, just tools. Maybe its also because they are smaller gardens and we live in a town that boasts a garden district (it keeps the property values high even though its right by the noisy trains).

Of course in my parent's town they rent a plot and can do whatever they want. That's why they planted tomatoes almost 2 months before the last frost date. I don't think my parents thought the climate change would be so different and the organizers don't really care. Then again they live in the middle of nowhere western Kansas. Land is aplenty and allotments come in 15'x80' sections. Bigger than my entire back yard.

Incredibly rich information and views.

Katie has the best opportunity. Approach the owner of the lot and ask to put a vegetable garden on it until it sells. There will probably be an insurance form to sign. Then give away her produce to those in need.

Marketing, & YouTubing, her exploits along the way. Good for her viewpoint and extra pr for the landowner.

A win for her, the landowner, those in need and as inspiration to others.

What is that quote about spending your last dollar on a loaf of bread or a flower?

Never realized how American the quote is. It's about choice.

Again, rich information. Thanks for the post.

Garden & Be Well, XO Tara Dillard

Good Grief!!!!--Thank heavens Ed has no authority to enact his "Controlled Community Garden" system. What a ridiculous--overkill (emphasis on "kill")-- response to his observations that some community gardens aren't successfully organized and utilized.

Community gardens--just like the actual communities--thrive or suffer based on lots of factors--primarily, it seems to me, based on how the residents feel and relate to their community. In the case of a community garden, residents/participants will be engaged as far as their needs and desires enable them. Yes, leadership plays a very important role--but more as an example rather than a taskmaster/arbiter of choices and tastes.

The most successful community gardens that I know of are sustained by a population of dedicated, enthusiastic people who are passionate about good food and a higher quality of life based on participating in growing their own food--not what Ed describes as people treating it as a "leisure sport."

Ed's "control" approach is dangerous to the whole proposition of trying to engage people's imaginations at this stage of the process of bringing people back to realizing the need and importance of community gardening.

We need leaders, yes...but ones that inspire as they teach by example--not dictators who tell us that we will grow and cannot grow. I'm glad to hear that he was "nearly run out of the room on a rail" when he proposed his horrible idea to his neighbors. Because his idea is a prescription for failure.


Democracy is all about organization. It is also all about diversity. There is no one right solution for anything in this world! This post has lots of great ideas for higher yields and efficient use of land. Some people will love this, some people immediately go to the 'nazi' rhetoric. (A little over-the-top, perhaps) What's important is that we all KEEP ON GROWING in whatever fashion works for us, and do not disparage what works for others!!

Great food for thought on all sides of this issue.

Ed speaks the truth not only about community gardens but also about our interaction with the land and with other humans.

It's very unfortunate that we cannot get over our paranoia and distrust to accept the fact that we are fragile mortals that need to live together in harmony if we're to make any progress at all.

I am in the early process of trying to create a community garden in my small Idaho town. The "traditional values" long entrenched here may result in knee-jerk reactions similar to comments above by Troll and others.

Sad but true.

I'm thinking mostly in terms of watersheds these days, and if you can't even get people to cooperate in a community garden, how are we ever going to protect entire watersheds?

Seriously people, what's wrong with working together to benefit everyone even more? Those who want their individual plots could certainly still do so, but why not have part of the space be shared space where everyone works together?

In my individual garden, I've developed a canopy style with fruit trees shading space for other plants that need less sun, etc. It works well. In a community space, you could have more permanent production plants like fruit trees that are both shade providers in hot months and productive use of the space even when not gardening.

This is a great plan, really. I really like it.

Your post makes too much sense. Trying to press maximum efficiency standards on eclectic community gardeners will only cause trouble.

Here's another idea: a compromise.

Instead of a grand high-council of gardeners who decides what is grown where when and how - consider having people with allotments submit their plans in the early spring.

The plans could be reviewed, and if there are novice-gardener problems (as mentioned above)then the more local-savvy gardeners could offer suggestions and help. Tell them not to plant the wrong-zone plants. Suggest co-planting species that work well together. Recommend things that need to be recommended, then back off.

You will get your more-efficient gardens, more veggies, and no lynch-mob. It won't be perfectly efficient, but you might be surprised by the number of people trying to be more-efficient than the other plots near them once they have some directly relevant tips on how to make the garden they want.

Personally, despite the diligent efforts of many, I'm still not feeling the sense of urgency that Ed describes in his first paragraph.

If you want to do this, community gardening sounds like a terrible name. Why not call it community farming...or, better, cooperative farming...or, even better yet, collectivist agriculture?

I'm fortunate enough to have my own patch of land to do with as I please (as long as I'm permitted to by those who may resent my inefficient use of it).

I would be sorry to think that the landless apartment dwellers of my community would have no choice but to surrender their individuality to the collectivist diktats of efficiency and productivity. Which in the long-term, history has shown will be neither efficient nor productive.

Didn't we get into this mess with big ag by trying to constantly increase yields.
Working together in a community garden goes on all the time here in Chicago with many organizations helping new gardeners learn.
But...
Boards with power abuse power,HOA"S anyone.

I think that would just take all the fun out of community gardens... Some towns have Community Farms, that operate like you said, and I think that is fine and dandy. But the whole point of community gardens is to have more land, so individuals can experiment and grow. Not that there isn't a place for community farms and efforts, I just don't think land should be taken away from hobbiests to do it, especially when there are little corners of land tucked around all over, that are unused!

There needs to be both. I can't get rid of the uncomfortable feeling of being told what I can or can't plant. Since this is a new garden, go ahead and make it whichever way the majority wants it. But I don't think we should be trying to change existing community gardens into something like this.

check out myfarmsf.com for a better approach... all the organization, none of the bureaucracy.

As a rural gardener I don't really understand the argument. The only community gardens we have are memorial gardens. If you want veggies then there's your backyard. But I can see how the "We tell you what to plant" can be scary for gardeners, who these days are predominately a unruly and independent lot. Imagine the horror of someone saying you can only plant Ace tomatoes. I would definately subvert that effort (no offense to the Ace tomato.)

There at least one community garden here that is run by a group of people who vote on what to grow each year and how to grow it. Then they work the garden and share the results. Simple. No Nazis, no control. The group who works the plots decides. No single individual rules and if that person wants to grow an heirloom from Europe, that individual can grow it in his/her yard. I've seen the members of this community garden use methods I don't use and you know what? I don't freaking have to join if I don't like the way they do things. Community gardens are ran by a Community. You want to be an individual and have your own individual garden? Good! I have my own yard but when I decide to join a community garden then I will abide by the community rules.


This is a wonderful and complex subject.

I understand the cooperative need: organize, and produce more.

To that end, in South Africa, early this year, I was hugely inspired by the work of the NGO Abalimi bezekhaya, where small plots of land in the shanty towns (townships) are farmed by women - who have received 3-day intensive organic training - who use the food they grow to feed their families as well as to fill weekly CSA boxes packed by an affiliate NGO, Harvest of Hope. The latter gives them a list of crops it needs in the boxes. The links are to two posts I wrote about these organizations.

On the other paw:

I read bemused about comments here from people with their own "backyards"...Sigh:

As a New York City dweller, with a 66 square foot terrace of my own, I appreciate that the many who have NO space of their own in which to garden, love to have a little plot in a community garden which they can call their own; in which they can plant what.ever. they like.

Yes, the gardens end up being idiosyncratic and patchworky, but they feed the engine that makes us tick: the soul.

http://66squarefeet.blogspot.com/2009/01/abalimi-bezekhaya-urban-farming.html

http://66squarefeet.blogspot.com/2009/01/weekly-food-box-harvest-of-hope.html

Soon I will be designing a small park/garden for the city of New York. And these are the conversations buzzing in my head. Beauty? Pleasure? Utility?

I think it may turn into a foraging garden inspired by Mr Euell Gibbons :-)

I like beauty that is edible.

I lived in the soviet Union in the days of "collective farming" -- the local soviet controlled what was planted, where, who did what kind of work, how it was run. The residents did the work as directed, and the production was sent to the central unit for shipment to Moscow or wherever.

The people had little personal plots which they were free to work in their spare time. The small personal plots out-produced the whole collective farm in every case, because the people had motivation. Besides feeding their families, almost everything available in the markets of Moscow in those days came from the personal plots.

Life was hard for Russian in those days, and I am not sure there was much consideration of personal satisfaction, but simply of the tough economic reality of survival -- a place to which we have not been for many many years. I can understand the urge to co-operate, to work for the good of the community, but I understand more the impulse to provide for one's own.

I'm selfish. I want my very own Costuluto Genoveses, and not some generic tomato chosen by committee.

Ed, if you turn all the vacant lots into food production, don't expect the city to be able to afford all the parks and recreation and cooperative extension service staff you'd like to see. Because they'll be short on potential property taxes. In the real world, there's an economic trade-off.

I agree that we should probably use the public land available more efficiently--but how do you mobilize people to do that?

How do you propose to promulgate and educate ordinary folks about your enlightened approach to community garden? Who will mobilize the schools (that Superintendent Rhee hasn't already laid off?) Who will help enforce an honest assessment of what vacant land can't possibly be sold and should be converted to a garden?

If you want to make a push for productive gardening in the urban areas that need it most, then I suggest toning down the flippant attitude about the government officials whom you will need to make it happen. Revenues are down this year. The city has had to furlough and cut back staff. They're not ignoring you, Ed. They probably aren't there at all.

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